Behind the Scenes with Kirk Degiorgio (Organized by SGMUSO)

Behind the Scenes with Kirk Degiorgio

26TH APRIL 
KYO
8PM

Moderator: Cherry Chan (Syndicate)

Kirk Degiorgio (2010). Source: Wikimedia Commons

Full transcript

Kirk: I’m a producer and DJ, and have written articles about Herbie Hancock. I’ve done many things, but everything I do is about music. I started DJ-ing in the early 80s, playing electro when it first came out in 1982. My friends used to breakdance – I couldn’t do that – so I was the DJ. One of my good friends from my hometown, Ipswich, was a professional footballer. Even though the wages weren’t like what they are today, you could still afford to buy two Technics. So we used to go to his house, and he would let us practice, and that’s how we learnt to DJ, with two decks.

Cherry: When did you start getting into producing?

Kirk: The same guy bought a Korg drum machine, and he did not know how to use it, and nor did I. I did not touch any other equipment for seven years, then I was invited by some more people from Ipswich, the Black Dog guys and Plaid, and they were break dancers in my hometown, to play with them. I went to the studio, and they had an 808 drum machine, mixer, sampler, and synthesizers, and that was when I first started trying to learn how to use a sequencer on a computer.

Cherry: As I understand, Plaid themselves can’t read music, and neither did you, so it’s quite interesting especially for those of us here who can’t play the keys. What was the process like for you?

Kirk: Firstly, in electronic music, when the first synthesizers were designed, they were designed without traditional keyboards. They had unusual touch controllers. Not only was it about a new electronic sound, it was also an untraditional way of creating music. So I was able to justify not being able to play an instrument like a traditional keyboard and just use sequences – no shame in that – I also think that it is to the advantage to anyone to learn a bit of music theory. I have taught myself some things on music theory. The biggest thing that I hear people ask me is that they can make a loop, but that’s about it.

Cherry: So when it comes to arrangement?

Kirk: Exactly, and a lot of that is to do with music theory, to expand that loop into a full arrangement and adding other stuff. I think it comes down to knowing a bit about scales and how you can add things that will fit the loop.

Cherry: Since we are talking about music production now, a lot of people when they first start making music, very often they will try to emulate the music that they like. From there, how do you create your own signature sound?

Kirk: I definitely have that process. I began by imitating Detroit techno records, and I think creating your own sound comes naturally. Someone at the Red Bull Music Academy, who is James Brown’s music director, said that the history of innovation in music can be traced down to bad memory. Everybody is trying to emulate somebody that they really like, but they forget or they get it slightly wrong, and that’s how you create your own unique sound.

Cherry: When you write, do you sit down and go like, “Oh today I’m going to write techno.”?

Kirk: Sometimes with techno, I would start with a particular bpm. I never sit down thinking that I’m going to do a melodic track today or I’m going to do a heavy, loopy kind of track. Never. It just goes wherever the music takes me.

Cherry: Once you finish the track, how do you know it’s good? A lot of producers will start on a track, and they might get it down to arrangement, but they keep meddling with it.

Kirk: Again, that is something that is very hard to explain, how you know when a track is finished. For me, it’s usually when I think the track is too busy, and there’s too many things going on and too many distractions so you start stripping it back, and that’s when you say, ok, if you start adding more, it’s too much. Also, when there’s not enough elements, you know that it’s not finished.

Cherry: When you were first starting out, do you send your tracks out to peers or people to get feedback?

Kirk: Yes of course. I didn’t send them to other people, I sent my first tracks straight away to Underground Resistance. I got a fax a week later from Mike Banks saying that they loved my tracks, but Underground Resistance is for Detroit Underground Resistance artistes only, but we passed your tracks to Carl Craig and he would be in touch with you. I didn’t think it would be true, but Carl phoned me and said that he loved the tracks and that was my first release.

Cherry: Since we are talking about getting in touch with labels, for young producers, what are the questions that they should be asking? How should they even be approaching the labels?

Kirk: It’s much more difficult now. There’s almost too many ways that you can approach labels. Obviously, when I did it, Underground Resistance probably had the address on the label itself. These days, you can probably send it to somebody’s Soundcloud. I myself receive so many emails or Facebook messages with download links, and I would say that the best way is maybe to do it yourself, to be honest. Nowadays, it’s so hard. Maybe for the first release, do it yourself or with some friends, because if it’s good, DJs like myself will find it and it’s better when the label approaches the artist rather than the artist going to the label. That was also how I did it. I had more tracks, and thought that I was just going to do it myself. I think that’s the best way.

Cherry: So you had your own label, did your own promotions?

Kirk: We didn’t even do any promotion. During those early days, I didn’t know what promotion was. This was 1991, and all I cared about is making music and put it out. All I needed was money to manufacture, do the artwork, find a distributor, and that was it. No promos, I didn’t even send them to magazines for review. They just bought it and reviewed it anyway.

Cherry: Ok. But since nowadays the market’s quite different. I think with technology as well, we get a lot more music, just like how you receive a lot of download links. What do you look for in track?

Kirk: Again, I have a very individual taste. I’m finding the same for other labels as well. I get asked to do EPs for labels, and they have very particular taste. In the old days, maybe labels will take a lot of my tracks. Now they are like cherry picking instead, they are more particular than before, because there is so much stuff out there, and labels have to have some kind of definite sound, whereas when we started out, we released a whole lot of down tracks, club tracks, home listening tracks, ambient tracks, now the vinyl market, especially for other professional DJs, they are looking for something that they know will keep playing in the clubs.

Cherry: So it’s a good label for producers to have their own little label, and write for certain labels that they want to get onto?

Kirk: I would make that the second stage. The first stage is to try to do it yourself and some friends, and get a buzz going on your label. Then you find that you will be approached. That’s how I found some of them on my label ART, which is mainly to support new artistes. One of them is a new young Dutch producer called Stefan Vincent. He had one release. I really liked it, and contacted him to ask if he had any more tracks, so that’s how it works. We do check things, I do anyway, and I like to work with young guys as well.

Cherry: For many new artistes, they sometimes get caught in a genre or find it hard to switch genre without losing their current fans. I was talking to an artiste the other day, and he basically started out with a lot of love songs, but he really wanted to diversify and experiment with more styles. How would you mange this sort of situation?

Kirk: I’ve done everything from hard techno to pop, and I think it’s because no matter what style I do, I have a sound, and I think it comes across when I DJ as well. I think you can start doing that when you find your definitive sound. You can then apply it. Say the guy with the ballads, if he wants to do more experimental stuff, he could still apply some of the musical techniques used for ballads and incorporate them into more experimental things as well. When I do different styles, it still sounds like me.

Cherry: You have a lot of different names under different projects.

Kirk: Yeah, I’m trying not to anymore. Now I just put it under my own name, for about five or six years now.

Cherry: So that’s not advisable these days?

Kirk: Well, the thing is, we did it in the beginning for legal reasons, because it enables you to release under different names for different labels, because if you do it under one name, you won’t be exclusive. In those days, that was the normal thing. You sign with one label for five albums, and that was it. You couldn’t write for anybody else. So doing things under different names was one way to work, and I think techno and house producers pioneered that approach.

Cherry: Back to the RBMA shows, which spans a huge variety of genres from jazz to Jimmy Hendrix to 70s movie scores  to techno, which is an amazing collection of music. How do you go about manning the shows?

Kirk: Since I was eleven years old, I have been obsessed with music. It’s all up here. It’s all digitized now, it makes it so much easier. I digitized all of my vinyl collection. I just got so many ideas for shows that I can keep going and keep going. The latest one is a two part electric blues. It’s Muddy Waters, Johnny Walker, Howlin’ Wolf, that kind of stuff. It’s never been played on RBMA radio, so I’ve done four hours of this.

Cherry: How long does it take to do this?

Kirk: It takes a long time, so they’d really appreciate this, and I love doing it.

Cherry: So with touring, producing the music, running the label, creating radio shows, what’s your secret to time management? I asked that question because a lot of us here tend to hold a day job, and at night we would do music, and there’s just so many things to do, from promotion, to creation, and networking. How do you decide on your focus?

Kirk: You won’t believe this, but actually I’m quite lazy (laughs). I do all this stuff, but I’m a lazy person. I really don’t know. Working nights?(shrugs) I think it’s attributed to the fact that I do this and nothing else. I’ve done nothing else since 1994, I started making enough money making music to leave my job at a record shop. I was signed with R&S records. My label is doing well, and with DJ-ing…  It’s been quite hard for some other people who I think are very talented, and they say to me, “I never get the time”, but I would say to them, “Do you love the music or not? If you do, leave your job, and just do music.”

Cherry: Is there any particular focus that they should be doing first?

Kirk: The most important thing to survive as an artiste in electronic music now is DJ-ing and performing.  To do that, you have to have some kind of musical profile. I would say, making the music, making a name for yourself, and if you are a good producer, kind of work out how you can transform that from the studio into a good live performance. Only DJ if you are a DJ. There are so many producers and for some of them, it might be impossible for them to do a live performance. Their studio technique might not suit a live performance, so they DJ instead, but everyone is a DJ.

Cherry: Yes. Because what you write in the studio might not work for the floor.

Kirk: Exactly. And there’s equipment. There are some people who have so much equipment that unless you have some kind of touring crew with you, you couldn’t really perform it as it should sound. That’s the most important thing financially for a musician to survive at the moment is the live performance, because there’s not much money in releasing records.

Cherry: What’s the most exciting live performance that you’ve seen recently?

Kirk: It’s a band actually. I don’t know if anyone knows the American band called Midlake. They were amazing. Their music was Americano, in Austin Texas, so they had influences from Joni Mitchell, and maybe Crossby, Stills & Nash, but more up to date. They had synthesizers as well, guitars, drums and harmonies. They were amazing.

Cherry: How about electronic music? ‘Cause it can get quite tricky, when it comes to performing.

Kirk: Moritz von Oswald. I saw the three of them at Fabric. Moritz was nervous. They scheduled him in the middle of the night, and he said, “This isn’t going to work.” It’s quite a deep thing that he was doing, but everyone loved it. It was one of the best things I’ve seen recently, how he managed to pull off quite deep, but not necessarily full on dance music in a club. It was recently he had his illness, a stroke, and he had to sit to perform, but the show was fantastic.

Cherry: You make and play a lot of different types of music, but more for techno. What attracted you to techno?

Kirk: It had an energy, and the links to funk music, which I liked, like Funkadelic, James Brown, those kind of bands, it had that kind of black music element, and my history is black music, funk, soul, electro. One of them is Juan Atkins. I had his Cybotron record as a kid, years before I knew what techno was.

Cherry: Do you have any advice for musicians when dealing with media? Especially when they start putting their music out there, they start to feel vulnerable when they get bad reviews. In your years of experience, how do you deal with this sort of situation?

Kirk: Completely ignore them, whether it’s good or bad. It’s just somebody’s opinion. Never take any notice of them (laughs). Most of the time, they have only probably listened to it once, they have to think of something clever (to write). I have never enjoyed reviews, even if they are really good and they give you five stars – it doesn’t mean anything.

Cherry: What about working with collaborators?

Kirk: It’s not my preferred thing actually, because I’m not a musician, so I have my own weird way of making music and I prefer it if I’m on my own. Doing The Beauty Room was a real learning process. I learnt that it’s more other people’s egos and personalities that are much more difficult to manage than the music side of things. The music, people can understand and it just comes naturally, but you get all kinds of feedback, like “My instrument isn’t loud enough in the mix” or “There’s not enough reverb on my vocals” or something like that. It’s all about egos.

Cherry: But you do have some nice releases which features collabs like The Beauty Room…

Kirk: I think I’m quite tolerant. But I feel more relaxed when I’m on my own. Right now I’m working with another artiste, on her new album, and I’m really doing it the way I prefer, and she takes time in the studio and sends me tracks, and then I work on them and send them back. It kind of nice because I can really take my time, experiment a bit more, and it works well because the technology allows that.

Cherry: A bit about Ableton. You are pretty much one of the first artistes to start using Ableton as your DJ set in 2002?

Kirk: Around that time. I don’t know how many of you remember that the late 90s, maybe a bit earlier, when CDJs first came around – I hated them. You put a CD in, and it would either spit it out because it didn’t recognize the tracks and I couldn’t get off using vinyls after so many years, so I just felt like it was going to run away. So CDJs are not for me, but I wanted to do something different. When Ableton first came out, I was looking to do a live show. It was called Ableton Live, so obviously it was geared towards live performances. I bought the software. The first thing I noticed was that it had a yellow cross fader on the channels. Cross fader is a mixer thing, it’s a DJ thing. And I realized, hang on, this thing recognizes where the beats are. If I put a track here on A, and another one there on B, maybe I can mix and you can switch A on B. I thought, “Oh my god, it works.” I’m not beat matching. This is weird , then I thought “Hang on a minute. Maybe I used the cross fader, I can put a loop on track number three and place it underneath them and mix them like three deck mixing. Or maybe I could filter out the kick drum of that track and put my own kick drum on track four.” And then I knew the future of DJ-ing. It was right there.

I did some practices, and I also took it with vinyl. For the first couple of times, I was mixing vinyl alongside with Ableton, so it did look weird to the crowd. Then, I decided to just take a laptop and nothing else. The only negative comment were from a few other vinyl DJs. The crowd was like “Wow! What’s this? How are you doing this? How are you mixing three or four records? How did you put the melody from one onto another?” They were really open minded. Vinyl DJs were like, “You don’t need headphones? You’re not mixing? That’s cheating.” This was just something different. Some people like Surgeon or Ritchie Hawtin picked it up, but this is my boast. I emailed Ableton saying I don’t know if you meant it for this, but I have been DJ-ing with it. And they said it’s the first time they’ve heard someone just using it for DJ-ing. They said it was truly interesting, and I kept sort of giving them little ideas. The really big acceptance of it came when Sasha started using it as well.

Cherry: So it has become quite common to use it for DJ-ing now.

Kirk: It’s not as common as Serato and Traktor, but yes Surgeon still uses it. What you see now is that a lot of people are using Ableton to do hybrid DJ-ing and live shows as well, whereas I use it solely for DJ-ing.

Floor: How important was the scene and community to the development of your career? Because in Singapore, we tend to have a more limited market. How would you deal with that?

It’s really important actually. The way we got together was in record stores. Obviously that’s disappearing these days, but people now have their equivalent online. I think music forums… I surprised there’ not a more dedicated one. I mean you have Resident Advisor, obviously, but it’s not a tight forum. There used to be a one called Little Detroit I think, but once Facebook came on, it killed all these little ones off. I think social media is the equivalent of how we used to do it. We used to meet at record shops, and just stand at the counter and be the guys talking about every new release, and the guy behind the counter said, “Buy this, buy that.” That’s how we did it. Those days are probably gone.

Floor: Do you have any opinions on the iPad apps scene?

I only use the iPad for controlling. I’ve only tried the Lemur controller, and I’ve messed around with Animoog, which I really love. But I find touch controllers quite difficult. It’s why I prefer to use an APC Akai controller. I like to slam faders and have that kind of tactile thing. I’ve seen live DJs use the original Lemur and they tend to do things very gradually, so I haven’t really used the iPad much. I don’t have a media deck or anything much yet, but it makes sense because they are going to be so powerful. It’s just like having another laptop I guess. So I’m going to watch it, because there are a lot of innovative things that don’t make it to the computer for some reason. Is that something that you’re involved in?

Floor: Yeah, I’m exploring that. I think the current iPad Air is at a performance level that is suitable for live and for studio, with the interapp audio and Audiobus 2, there’s labels that built around iOS music and I think with the multi-touch gestures, it can really expand its potential.

Kirk: With the gestures, I think that could the way to get over the tactile problem. They could become more sensitive and you could do those dramatic gestures when you DJ. You need those things for the crowd. (laughs) Surgeon uses Faderfox. Those little things, they are too small for me. If I did that, it would end up somewhere in the dance floor.

Cherry: One interesting app is Konkreet Peformer: after you load in everything, you can port the screen onto your visuals.

Kirk: One of the things I like about the iPhone, is an app when you have the headphones with a little microphone, and when you play the music, it would change as your environment changes. If you’re running, it would sense your body movement, and the music would get more intense, so it’s really interactive.

Floor: You use Ableton for DJ-ing. Do you use it for production as well? Do you start with the beat first, or a melody first?

I don’t follow a particular rule, but it helps if you start with a certain bpm. I usually start by having a kick drum just as a reference, and then it could be adding more drums and working on drums, or it could be a bass or melody. I don’t have any methods, and I don’t save any of the sounds, because I usually use a modular synth, once you’re on touch the sound is gone anyway. I save the Ableton sessions in case I’m going to take it on the road, I don’t have a library of sounds. If I come up with a bass on Reaktor, I don’t save them. I don’t like saving sounds because I don’t want to use them again and again like a formula where you become lazy and say “Oh yeah, I liked that bass sound that worked in that track, so I would just use that.” That could work for some people. They might have a big hit, and might want to do something similar, but that doesn’t really inspire me musically. I like to come up with new sounds for each track.

Floor: How do you make your live performance physically interesting?

It’s down to visuals at the moment. I can’t see any other way with electronic music. When I saw that Moritz show, the visuals were the only thing to look at, really. I think that’s where new technology would come in and be able to sync visuals with bpm. I’ve used this guy, who doesn’t do visuals now because he’s gone pretty big, signed on to Rush Hour, so now I need to do my own now, as he’s too busy DJ-ing.

Floor: Any favorite program for visuals?

No, I do everything with Final Cut, and you can sync it to Ableton. I would pre-render it, and it would probably be synced somehow. I’ve done TV work, so I know about scoring and having key points. It’s going to be an old school approach.

 BEHIND THE SCENES
A brand new SGMUSO initiative, is a series of workshops/talks designed to give members exclusive access to key players in the music industry. Our special guests will provide an insider's perspective with crucial insights on a variety of relevant music industry matters.

KIRK DEGIORGIO
A cornerstone of UK techno, Kirk Degiorgio (aka As One) is one of the most sought-after mixer/producer/DJ in today’s eclectic dance music scene and has been tirelessly delivering Detroit’s original message to British crowds for years. Regarded as a heavyweight producer with a unique electronic sound that combines elements of jazz, soul, techno and funk, Kirk’s also lectured extensively at Red Bull Music Academy and is a famed user of Ableton. 

Kirk Degiorgio Red Bull Music Academy lecture: 
http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/kirk-degiorgio--planetary-folklore

CHERRY CHAN
A pioneer in the Singapore electronic music scene, Cherry Chan’s accolades includes championing Singapore's first all-girl DJ night- PopMyCherry and co-founding the FFF Girl DJ Bootcamp and Syndicate.SG, In 2010, Cherry was handpicked to attend the exclusive Red Bull Music Academy in London. In that same year, she co-founded Syndicate, Singapore’s first audio-visual label aimed at growing a culture of visual & sound making, encouraging audience exposure to original experimental content.

This session was transcribed by Emily Haw. Reach out to her on Twitter @emilyhaw

"Opportunities are everywhere. It's what you make of it," says Wu Jiahui, multi-award winning Malaysian singer-songwriter

With more than 150 songs under his belt and multiple award wins, including the Malaysia Outstanding Artist Award at the recent Global Chinese Music Awards (全球華語歌曲排行榜) 2012 held in Singapore, Wu Jiahui (伍家辉) is arguably Malaysia’s fastest-rising singer-songwriter.

He has written songs for some top artistes such as Jacky Cheung 張學友 (Black and White 黑白畫映), Stefanie Sun 孫燕姿 (Wish you happiness 祝你開心), Leon Lai 黎明 (Man with Love 有情郎) and Jerry Yan 言承旭 (One metre一公尺), and sang the hit song “One-Half” from movie “881” original soundtrack that sold more than 13,000 copies in Singapore.

Jiahui first started as a songwriter writing for other singers, but eventually became a full-fledged recording artist and performer, singing his own material. However, it’s still songwriting, as Jiahui admits, that gives him the kicks.

“I definitely prefer being a songwriter, because I started out behind the scenes. But today, being a singer and a producer allows me to exert more influence and control over the music. Although being a singer definitely brings in more revenue from performances as compared to the efforts put in as a producer or songwriter, ultimately it’s still songwriting and producing that brings me the greatest satisfaction.”

Multiple award winning Malaysian singer-songwriter, Wu Jiahui

“When I first started, I already felt contented just merely by sharing my music through songwriting. Later when I took part in a songwriting competition, I was discovered by a publisher, and was later signed as an artist by renowned Singaporean musician Eric Ng (Funkie Monkies Production). Actually, I feel that as long as I am able to sing for one more day, I would grasp that opportunity and continue to make the music I love and share it with others, because music is my dream and an indelible part of my life.”

We understand that you did not renew your contract with Funkie Monkies (FM) Productions and decided to become independent. Could you share why you made this decision? How different is it having your own label?

Actually, I’m very thankful and grateful to FM Productions for grooming me all this time. My decision to set up my own company was because both the label and I share the same consensus that it’s time for me to step out on my own. I’ve been signed to FM since 2006, and during all these years we’ve experienced so much together, and have built a lot of camaraderie. Our relationship is not just simply that of a label and its artiste, it’s more like a family, and now the parents are very happy to see their child take flight.

The new label starts out with signing myself. It’s called “Dreammy Studio”(吾梦工作室), which means finding one’s dreams. Currently there’s a manager running it for the moment, but later, when the time is right, we will slowly expand or work with other companies who are interested.

The difference between having my own label and being signed to a bigger label is that having my own label gives me a lot more freedom and control to exercise my thoughts and opinions, while a bigger label would have more financial and human resources.

What's the music industry in Malaysia like? Are there more opportunities as compared to Singapore, Taiwan and China? Where does the majority of your fan base come from? Is the media more supportive in your home country?

There are several segments in the music industry in Malaysia. There’s Malay music, English music and Chinese music, and within the Chinese music market, it’s split between local and overseas Chinese music. Actually I feel that the level of opportunities is equal everywhere, it’s all a matter of how you target the market and where you stand. Basically, my fans come from Mainland China, Taiwan, Singapore and Malaysia, and I’m thankful that the media here supports me very much.

How many performances do you do typically in a month? Are they mostly in Malaysia or overseas? Now that you have won the Most Outstanding Artiste Award (Malaysia) in the Global Chinese Music Awards, do you see anything changing for you?

On average, I do about three to four performances in a month, out of which usually one is from overseas (but it depends on the market, sometimes we could have more requests towards the end of the year, all at the same time). I feel that winning the award is just a form of recognition, and perhaps a platform for more friends to know me, and maybe because of that there are more performance requests.

Other than the Most Outstanding Artiste Award (Malaysia), your song <我們怎麼LOVE> has also been awarded as one of the Top 20 Songs. What do these two awards mean to you?

I’m very happy because I never thought that <我們怎麼LOVE> would win an award, because when I was writing it, I didn’t have too many considerations or further thoughts, I was simply just writing what I had wanted to express and record down my feelings at that moment. So now it’s really great that the song had won.

What do you think of the future of the Chinese music industry in Malaysia and in Asia would be like?

Malaysia’s music industry has been creating waves and is now on a surge. In the Chinese music industry in general, Malaysian artistes make up a considerable number; and now, as long as we stay united and work hard together, we can definitely achieve even greater success and reach higher levels. I hope that all musicians will put in their very best and their upmost sincerity in every song and every musical note, to move and to encourage more and more people out there.

After note

In the midst of arranging this interview, another of Jiahui's works, 《灰》, has won Best Television/ Movie Soundtrack at the PWH Music Awards 2012. 《灰》，together with another recent work, 《香火》, written for a TV serial by Malaysia’s NTV7 of the same name, are nominated Best Theme Song in the upcoming Asian Television Awards 2012.

Certainly a wave-maker himself.

 

COMPASS CEO says, "It's almost impossible to monetize music from new media."

During the 90-minute interview with Dr Edmund Lam, CEO of The Composers and Authors Society of Singapore (COMPASS), he was candid and forthcoming. As much as one hopes that a successful and more equitable business model will eventually emerge to monetize music in the new media age, he has seen a fair share of hopefuls that came and left the market, and what remains now are existing models that are still require improvement in many areas.

"It's almost impossible to monetize music from new media," he says. "But what new media has done is to provide more access for consumers to discover different types of music, which will encourage more artists to come to Singapore for live performances. New media has also helped artists save on marketing costs.”

                                         Dr Edmund Lam, CEO of COMPASS

Indeed, how artists and publishers earn their keep has continuously been a challenge, and Dr Lam shares how COMPASS, playing the role of Singapore’s sole copyright administrator, has evolved over time. He also talks about what he thinks will be the future of the music industry in Singapore.

Q: Based on COMPASS’s experience, what have been the best sources of royalties and other revenue in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s? Has this changed over the years?

The bulk of the current copyright law is based on the 1989 Copyright Act and prior to (that) was the Imperial Copyright Act dated back in 1911. When the Copyright Act in 1989 was passed, COMPASS started around the same period, although we had not started administration then. Prior to that there was the Performing Rights Society, a subsidiary of the Performing Rights Society in UK has been operating here for a number of years based on the Imperial Copyright Act, but that Act granted limited rights to music writers. It was only applicable to situations where live music was performed; so the British Agency only licensed pubs, nightclubs and the like. But the new Copyright Act was a fundamental change, because overnight, it granted a number rights to creators and our composers, and that gave us a room to start our business and COMPASS commenced operations in 1991.

One of the most important rights then was the Broadcast right, which upset the radio and TV stations because they had to pay royalties to COMPASS, so there was a Copyright Tribunal. Under the Copyright law, there is a provisional section that allows a dispute between a collective management organization like COMPASS and the user to have the tariff arbitrated. And that was the first Copyright Tribunal hearing. Unfortunately, the decision from the Copyright Tribunal hearing in 1991 did not grant us attractive rates for traditional broadcast, but that was how we started our operations, and the revenue comes from TV and radio stations, which provided an unprecedented source of revenue. Back then, the users were upset, but over the years, we built up a very good relationship with the radio and TV stations and they do play a part: we sponsor programs and we jointly organize programs to promote the music industry. So the relationship has changed quite dramatically over the years. Now, traditional media understand and appreciate the need to compensate music writers for using the intellectual property of the songs, because without those songs, they wouldn’t have existed.

Resolving with the major broadcast stations was a major establishment in the 1990s; and the other was the licensing of live concerts, and the breakthrough came only in 1993 when Michael Jackson had a big concert for 3 nights at the National Stadium. Tickets were priced at over a hundred dollars each. The organizers of the concert refused to pay because he claimed that Michael Jackson had granted him all (musical) rights, and because of that dispute we had another major case heard at the Tribunal, which was covered by the media daily. It was a tough fight, but COMPASS won at the end of the day. The Tribunal agreed to the rate we have established at 2.5% of gross ticket sales, which translated to quite a sum for the Michael Jackson concert, estimating to be about over a million dollars. After this case, revenue flows included those from live concerts. After Michael Jackson’s concert, there was also a booming trend in live concerts, and even today, live concerts by major artists are on the rise, and this source of revenue has not diminished over the years. (Revenue from) broadcasting has also not declined over the years, but they faced competition from cable TV, which has also become our major source of income since 1995-6.

Traditional broadcast (radio and TV), live concerts and cable TV have become major revenues of COMPASS until today. In addition, the other major revenue source is from the entertainment industry – we managed to penetrate nightclubs, karaoke operators (karaoke is something probably only common in Asia), and so composers who compose songs that people like to sing in karaoke will earn more royalties.

In the late 1990s-2000s, there was a rise of the popularity of ringtones. COMPASS does not normally administer mechanical rights (reproduction rights) of a musical work. COMPASS started off with performing rights (i.e. broadcast rights/ live performance rights), and in the olden days of CD printing, COMPASS has historically not been involved in that line of business. The publishers themselves administer that particular right. So a composer will assign the musical rights to the Society but he will negotiate with the publishers to have his or her work to be recorded in a CD (sound recording) and this mechanical right is being administered by the publisher themselves, which was then licensed to the music labels for retail sales. But as we grow more established, we started to represent more independent writers who assigned those rights to us to administer. There was a short boom in ringtone, however the collections were not that attractive, because a ringtone supplier needed two licenses: one from COMPASS, which is a Communication right that we grant to them (when a ringtone supplier communicates to a handphone user, he requires this license from COMPASS). On the other hand, after the phone user receives the signal and makes a copy of it, that copy requires a reproduction right and requires a license from the publishers, and COMPASS does not have all the rights in this area. Some service providers took advantage of the confusion and did not pay the royalties. So although the ringtone business was doing very well (selling $1 each at its peak), we could only charge about 6-7 cents against a dollar, which translated into about $1-2 million of royalties out of a $20-30 million dollar ringtone business in Singapore. We didn’t manage to get much out of it because of the confusion, but in the end we all came together, because the publishers realized that it would be better to do it collectively, for the convenience of users. But by the time we got our act together, the ringtone business already went down. So the music industry was a little slow, and we couldn’t see the opportunity in time and was unable to catch up with trends quickly.

Q: What were some of the business models that worked or did not work for the music industry and why?

Similarly, for new upcoming business models, there’s some disunity amongst the different stakeholders in the industry, but hopefully we can get our act together to license the music to service providers. However, we realize it’s quite a challenging business because the Singaporean consumer does not purchase on a song-by-song basis. Consumers do not bite when you offer them $1 or $0.80 per song, as compared with markets in US, Japan and Australia.

One of them that failed was Soundbuzz, as the per-download model did not take off in Singapore. The telcos had the upperhand because they owned the platforms.  So some of them wanted a 50% margin if music was to be retailed through their platforms. Later, when the buffet-styled eat-all-you-can models was launched, it took off but in the process, music has become worthless. Nokia’s Comes With Music (product bundling model) also pulled out, because music has become too cheap and in the end we all don’t make any money.

The iTunes music service is not available in Singapore yet, but even if they launched it here, it will be very challenging for it to sustain because from the experience of the Nokia’s Come with Music business model, they used music not to make money but to use music to sell the phones. After they launched the service, Singaporeans downloaded several millions of songs but only for that small amount of money.

I think it is almost impossible to monetize music from new media. But what new media has done is to provide more access for consumers to discover different types of music, which will encourage more artists to come to Singapore for live performances. New media has also helped artists save on marketing costs. If you look at it broadly, artists can now promote their works more easily through YouTube and digital media. I observe that the cost of marketing Lady Gaga would be lower than marketing the Beatles, because with digital media, overnight, everyone will know about Lady Gaga, say in South Korea whereas in the past it would have taken months. Everything that happens now is instant and news spreads instantly. Marketing through new media is very massive and cheap. The labels and recording industry don’t benefit from all this, it’s more of the concert promoters and artistes themselves who are actually making the money now.

People are spending on music in a different way. People are willing to spend money on concerts to have a live experience and you’ll see the same artists coming back. One concert ticket is over a hundred dollars, and that, in the past, is worth 6-7 CD albums a years, so an average person is definitely spending more in music. Executives spend more time in bars, and more at karaoke sessions to have some kind of musical experience, as compared to previously.

Q: Could you elaborate more about COMPASS’s partnership with Youtube?

The license granted to YouTube is based on revenue collected from advertising. YouTube is also a place for our members to promote their works. More importantly, our license with Singapore YouTube allows the setting up of a Singapore domain. That’s the main motivation. We want YouTube to have a Singapore domain so we can track what kind of music and videos that Singaporeans or people in Singapore are viewing.

Q: What do you think would be the future of the music industry be like in Singapore?

In recent years, Opennet, the new generation of broadband, has started to roll out. It allows high quality streaming, which will connect our TV to all other devices in our homes. Once this is established, there are many services that can be provided to consumers. With Opennet, I could see changes in entertainment such as Xbox. Currently there are still limitations to Xbox with regards to the number of simultaneous multi-players because of limitations of bandwidth, but with Opennet, it will change the whole entertainment business. When you watch a football match, the resolution will be extremely clear. That will transform Singapore. Not many countries will have this – optical fibre. So I would see that the next kind of devices, such as the mobile phone, will be used as the interface to Internet TVs. Internet TV has not really picked up yet, but I think it will pick up after everyone has access to optical fibre broadband, and with that you can place your phone as a remote control to view YouTube on TV. That is already possible now, but currently it is still quite a cumbersome process to set up. In future, consumers will access their music through this platform, and probably people will watch programs and music using Opennet. It will be a revolution and change everything. Traditional broadcast media will be under threat, and so will cable TV. I believe that is the future.

Q: Geographically, which markets have the most potential?

Mainland China. It is a challenging market, but they would have to use a different model. They no longer make money through selling music, but once you establish a name in China, you can find other ways to milk the market. You can probably have many live performances. Just recently, I read that Eric Moo is making a lot of money, as every day he is performing at different places for those in their 40s and grew up with his music and can afford ticket prices. So he’s not doing new music but making money from all his old music. Artists can make money through touring and advertising. China has a population of 1.3billion people, and once you get an advertising right of a product, that would be more than enough for one album.

As for touring, I was told one cycle could last 4-5 years, given the number of cities and provinces that they could cover. Market size is still very important. Despite weak IP enforcement, there is still money to be made, albeit in other ways (e.g appearance fees). And so if CCTV invites you to be on their Chinese New Year show, you’d better not ask for money, because everyone will be fighting to get on it and the bargaining power will be different. Once you do an appearance like that, the chances of clinching a product endorsement deal are very high. And that’s how the industry will be involved, rather than through recorded music. Recording good music is still important, but the revenue cannot be from the sales of music.

About COMPASS

The Composers and Authors Society of Singapore (COMPASS) is an organisation created to protect and promote the copyright interests of composers, authors* (and their heir) and publishers of musical works and their related lyrics. COMPASS is a non-profit public company which administers the public performance, broadcast, diffusion and reproduction rights in music and musical associated literary works on behalf of its members. COMPASS deals specifically with music copyright and the usage of musical works.

For more information about COMPASS, visit www.compass.org.sg

17^th COMPASS Awards

The 17th COMPASS Awards Presentation will be held on 8 July 2012, 7pm at Marina Bay Sands, Sands Grand Ballroom. Event is exclusive to members.

The Record Industry in China

When I was in Secondary School, I was once offered a contract by a music publisher, but when I told Mum about my interest to join the music industry, her immediate reaction was, "玩音乐是没有前途的 (There's no prospect in joining the music industry) That was it. I never got to sign that contract but fortunately I didn't think too much about it then. Fifteen years later, as I recall her declaration, I can't help but reluctantly agree that Mum was probably right. Looking at the state of the record industry today, it's the record executives themselves who are calling it quits. During a recent Lifeweek interview with Song Ke (宋柯), the ex-AGM of Warner Music (China Region) painted a bleak picture of the Chinese record industry and shared his views for its demise.

1. Lack of a strong and cohesive ecosystem amongst the major players in the industry.

Song Ke feels that for the industry to sustain healthily, each content provider, including those from film and television, has to be able to maintain a 40% margin. In the '90s, record companies were at least able to obtain 8-12%. But today, they are struggling with less than 2%. Also, labels face the problem of a lack of negotiation power when approaching downstream e-distributors, and this problem is aggravated due to a lack of cohesiveness amongst labels themselves, resulting in a lack of standard rates to ensure the sustainability of all industry players. Song Ke himself had been lobbying for the past few years to create a united voice amongst labels to form a coalition and fight for better rates, but his repeated requests had been falling on the deaf ears of executives who merely see him as their competitor.

2. Lack of strong support from the government

Unlike film, television or the internet content industry which are multifaceted or interactive, the music industry does not seem to be able to generate the same level of buzz and media excitement, and hence there is little incentive for the Chinese government to support the industry in terms of infrastructure development or pushing for changes in legislation.

3. Lack of transparency/ dishonesty in trade dealing

In the Chinese mobile industry, Song Ke explains that the ideal business model for ringtones ("1585" service) is to have telco operators (e.g. China Mobile) receive a margin of 15%, while the remaining 85% is taken by the service provider enabler, which is to be shared equally between the enabler and the content provider (42.5% each). This model will be more equitable and sustaining. However, the common grievance from music labels is that almost all enablers are dishonest and have squeezed the share of the music labels to as low as 10%.

4. Even pirates know it better.

Song Ke laments it's ironic that even the pirate industry knows the importance of keeping a healthy 40% margin for sustainability. The cost of creating a pirate CD is about ten cents, and the typical mother who carries her child on the street to hawk pirated CDs is able to earn about $2 from the price of $5 per disc. With such an attractive margin, who would not resist?

5. Lack of innovation in the music industry

Song Ke has an interesting point of view about the lack of innovation in the music industry which has contributed to its demise. He compares this with the evolution of other media industries. In gaming, the industry has evolved from console to online; in film, movies have turned from 3D to IMAX. Such innovation has prevented pirates from keeping up. However, in the music industry, the MP3 has become accepted as the norm in place of the CD, and Song Ke considers it as a regressive and inferior format that does not improve the consumer experience. The MP3 has destroyed the need to read the lyrics. The MP3 does not allow the consumer to find joy in collecting album art. So why would the consumer want to pay a premium for an MP3? Furthermore, the MP3 format does not allow an equitable and robust business model to develop around it.

Since this blog is about the future of the music industry in Singapore and Asia, I thought it would be interesting to start off with Song Ke's pessimistic view of the music industry in China. Do you agree with his views? Is there any hope at all? Do send in your comments.